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 So Trial Mods

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Annie
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PostSubject: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:24 pm

Please look at the "Ok so..[Modding]" Topic.

To be completely honest, this test was 'rigged' in the fact that it asks questions and assumes that you should know them by simply answering them off base knowledge. It didn't say nor say you couldn't use
-outside knowledge
-manga links
-other things such as other peoples ideas.

It was rigged [which is loosely put] so there could be a general consensus on what most members have in their mind when they're posting things up. Now they aren't lab rats, but this gives us a general understanding of what said member is thinking when they post items/jutsu/etc up. Most members are answering the same answers pretty much so we have a better time modding things.

For instance, member Ryu is posting up a jutsu.

Quote :
Name of Jutsu: Hadouken
Rank: C
Users: Only Ryu
Type of Jutsu:: Ninjutsu
Range:
Element Affinity: Normal, higher ranks include fire
Description: Hadouken is a jutsu in which Ryu will compress chakra into a firm round ball by releasing it from his hands which are close together. Since the jutsu is composed into a ball and propelled with chakra, this ball can travel 10 meters very quickly. a fire version does the same thing but does more damage and takes longer to make

So now we can see that Ryu isn't trying to troll us, he's a good member and he wants his jutsu. First we have to make sure it's not too vague. Mods exist as a filter which allows things into the role-play environment. So the better you mod, the more fair/better/balanced the role-play environment becomes. So let's look at the jutsu carefully and pretend Marik Swift, is Ryu in this case. Let's look at number 7. Basically, this is how Ryu thinks jutsu are conceptualized. Please note there is nothing wrong with this and that I randomly picked Marik.
Marik wrote:

Well all techniques are used the same in almost all fictional things. If you want it you simply create it using your own will or mind. So the person first uses their chakra, and mixes it with their affinity for Katon. They then focus that chakra and blah blah blah before exhaling the chakra and letting it explode back into affinity chakra once released(to prevent it burning their mouth).

So Ryu thinks that in order to get a fire element jutsu you mix plain chakra with your affinity. We know now where this jutsu has several problems
1) Compressing chakra into that form might be C rank, but it feels around B if we compare Rasengan (which is the pinnacle of shape manipulation) to Hadouken.
2) The ball can supposedly travel 10 meters in the description, but no range is listed.
3) Any jutsu (like Rasen-shuriken) that is a product of another jutsu (like Rasengan) needs to be listed as another jutsu. You can't list Rasengan and Rasen-shuriken in the same jutsu even though Rasen-shuriken is formed with Rasengan as a basis. So the fire element part needs to be removed to keep from confusion. We don't want Ryu battling and then seeing that he can do fire element Hadouken and regular ones in his jutsu as C Rank technique. It would not be fair to the other role-player and it would be too vague.
4) There is no effect on how much damage the jutsu does.
5) Is it a straight line projectile?

Usually the function of the jutsu, damage, range, elemental manipulation and shape manipulation will define what rank a jutsu should be. These have to be compiled together in your mind to come up with what rank and or proper descriptions they need. Also hand signs are optional. Some members will prefer to add hand-signs to their jutsu. It is OK to suggest that a higher jutsu may take more hand-signs, but this isn't true when it comes to most characters because the manga rarely ever shows them anymore. Hand-signs may allow a character to "store" a jutsu and "hold it" before it comes out. Let's say a user has a wind element version of Raikiri and he says that once he performs the hand-signs, he can hold it for 6 posts. If you see that, ask questions like "can you do any other jutsu during the time you can hold it?" If they say yes, you want a reason why. There is no way you can perform something of that level and then perform another jutsu on top of it like that. Chakra does not "store" in that manner with several jutsu, only one unless it's like an E rank technique, like Henge or something with is simple enough to think into existence. The only other cases are jutsu which have similar manipulation and function.

So, now you should understand what the test was for and what we think when we mod jutsu. Other small guides will be posted up as you ask questions. By the way, the most acceptable answers to the test were... *Spoiler tags contain images*

1. Tsunade is definitely stronger than Raikage A. Raikage A has shown no feats comparable to Tsunade who accurately used Gamabunta's sword to impale Manda. There is a difference between implied strength and actual strength. In this case, Tsunade wins because she has shown a feat that the Raikage has not, the Raikage also never claimed himself as the strongest even though he has a lot of muscle.

Spoiler:
 

2. Naruto is the fastest character in terms of physical movement because of the Kyuubi cloak. The manga clarified this point very well. Just linking here, look at the next page as well. The image is too big.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v58/c544/13.html

3. The character with the most amount of chakra in the manga is the Juubi. This one required a little, 'out of the box' thinking. It can also be argued that the Third Raikage who took on 10,000 men and a Bijuu has more chakra than Kisame based off feat and manga evidence alone.
Spoiler:
 

4. Characters who have the most techniques in the manga... Acceptable answers are Kakashi and The Third Hokage. Sandaime was said to know and was able to perform every jutsu in Konoha; and Kakashi was the man who copied over 1000 techniques.

5. This one was tricky. The question implied explaining in depth of something that is fictional. The most acceptable answer was, "The Sharingan's tomoe's function as extra pupils which enhance sight to a higher degree as it advances. In Naruto, chakra sight is possible, so that's why it could see chakra as well." There's no other explanation for chakra sight besides it's possible, it asked you to explain it in a manner which made logical sense [hence scientist] and not as if you could actually bring it into the world we live in.

6. The correct answer was simply "No." The reason why [which wasn't asked] is because Totsuka is a spiritual blade and thus can't be found, hence Orochimaru was looking for a Susano'o user. You cannot "pick" a spiritual blade up off the ground somewhere and Susano'o does not use "items." The best answer was simply no.

7. As for the Goukakyuu the steps imply that there is no chakra beforehand. So the correct answer would be, "Prepare your chakra, do the hand signs for the technique and perform the jutsu." That's all that was needed.

8. The answer here was, "It's a summoning jutsu. It's feared because the user can appear wherever a marker is (on a kunai, tree, the target itself) and the user of the technique can transfer things like jutsu during summoning. Not to mention it is possible to change ones position when you summon, instead of being summoned as you were before you initiate the jutsu."

9. This one was a bit tricky as well. You could have written "Once Sasuke established the genjutsu to test it on Danzo, he only wanted to set up the same situation again where he could genjutsu him and win. Using genjutsu controls the opponents mind and since Sasuke could not win with the ninjutsu-taijutsu Amaterasu and Susano'o combo, genjutsu was his only option." Or you could have simply posted this.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c480/7.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v51/c480/8.html

10. Of course was a subjective answer, had no real answer.

Sasuke all day haters :



Ask questions!


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Iavas
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:31 pm

Hnn, read and understood. [In all honestly I was way too lazy when it came to that topic and only half-assessed it. But woot, I got some things right. ^_^]

Anyway... questions... none really (to this particular subject)--except for the following:
  • Non-Human / Half-Human, Half-SOMETHING based clans/bloodlines/RAs/etc. allowed or not?
  • Clans based on something like the dead, spirits, souls, etc. allowed or not?


I recall there being rules or something or other on this, but as those were archived it would be nice if this was made clear for the new site.

More to come when (if) I think of any...?


SIDE NOTE: -.- You guys really don't pay attention when you archive stuff, huh? >.> I spent like 2 hours archiving the archives. >.> Why make a Character Archive if you're not even going to use it??? And why would you guys put staff-related topics in the public archives???
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Caranore
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:48 pm

..... Who put staff related stuff in public?

And you are correct. Non human/half human etc unless created by specific genetic experiments (ie. they cannot just be half human at birth) and dead, souls, etc are banned. I think we could remove the genetic experiments completely, but lets be honest. If someone goes through the effort to roleplay genetically changing their character, Id allow it. Also, we do allow some modifications to represent animals, so its not that bad.

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kenkura
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:51 pm

oh i didn't even see the one test as in the naruto one...so yeah XD

but i don't really have any other questions :3
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Konjaku Uchiha
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:58 pm

Okay so let me get this straight. You rigged the questions to test our knowledge of the manga, approximate our ability to grade jutsu creations, and at the same time, though I don't know if this was intentional, make us look typically ignorant? I find it comical, and I don't mean to come off as rude. However, that's what it looks like from where I'm standing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last thing one says tends to be the most memorable to those who are being spoken to. In other words it's difficult for anyone, to remember less recently gained information. What I'm getting at is that this test was in no way bogus, but in a sense, rather unfair. It would require us to go further back into the memory banks than what is ever necessary in typical society. I can't speak for the rest of the staff or general site members but I'm in high school with no college aspirations and have never been asked to reach that far back. It seems unfair and without question, "Not cool, bro." Also in what way does this test, other than question 7, have to do with the specific creation of jutsu? I mean other than giving us something to do and allowing us to look like idiots, I don't really see how it all ties together.

I still don't understand how surveying us on a somewhat related, yet totally unrelated topic ties back to our ability as staff to do our jobs. Maybe I'm not interpreting something correctly, or maybe it's just the mentality I have as an "Ignorant High School Junior," call it what you will but when it boils down to it, in the end I don't get it. The concept of jutsu creation and ranking; uhm, when does this even come into play with the survey? I see somewhat of a connection but it's minor at best. How can you gather sufficient information about anything with just one misleading question, anyway?
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Caranore
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:03 pm

Its more so of a social survey so we can understand how you think. Based on your answers and how you answer the questions, we can get an idea of how your brain works, what you need to work on for moderation capabilities, your compliance with some questions, and your ability to utilize outside resources as well as the manga to be able to determine some things. It also helps us follow your train of thought when it some to moderation, such as figuring out how you came to such a conclusion with some aspects.

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Iavas
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:06 pm

Honestly, this survey is pretty decent and to say that it's unfair for us to have to 'recall that far' isn't really legit, in my opinion at any rate, because as a staff member you're typically expected to go do research on things you don't understand or aren't sure of. [I just got lazy and didn't do that like I normally do >.>'']

ALSO... the survey also measures your thinking process and ability to interpret and solve a problem. A job isn't necessarily always about knowing everything and being right. My cousin literally admitted that when he applied for his engineering job he was given a calculus problem that seriously didn't have an answer and he was expected to solve it. The reason why he was given an impossible question to solve was merely because his boss wanted to see how he thought and what he was capable of doing.


But ehh, my opinion. I'm probably wrong.


EDIT: Or Cara beat me to the post. -.- Dang it.
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Konjaku Uchiha
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:25 pm

Well, lavas let me ask you this. From where we are now (in the manga) do you expect a statistically typical high school student to be able to remember, without ever seeing it more than once, something as far back as the myth proclaiming Sandaime's surreal ability to have known and capabilities of performing every jutsu in Konoha? Do you honestly expect any average person to be able to do that and harbor the knowledge of Tsunade's feats under the same circumstances? If you cannot expect it from someone of average caliber with these circumstances, it is in my own experience that it should not be expected from someone with different caliber when all circumstances are applied. Thank you both, though for the clarifications, and in no way do I intend to sound malicious or attempting to attack you.
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Caranore
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:38 pm

Yep, considering that sort of knowledge is the big factors of the show. We dont expect you to remember everything, like we said, its a matter of figuring out how your brain works so we can figure out how you work. If you made it here, your processing ability and capabilities are good enough that we can use you on the staff team, so dont try and dig too deep into it.

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Iavas
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:40 pm

To simply answer your question: Yes, it's perfectly possible.

Example: My younger brother. He remembers things from Pokemon alllll the way from Season 1--like plot wise and everything. He's a pretty normal, a-typical high school student who no longer has a deep obsession with Pokemon since... about three years ago?

Example II: I'm an average college student and I was vaguely able to recall the Sandaime Hokage knowing a lot of jutsu regarding Konoha or something like that. I went and researched that to double check on myself.

Asides from that, most of the questions were fairly 'new'. The Tsunade & Sandaime Hokage one weere really the only ones that went all the way back to Naruto--the rest more or less dealt with Shippuden.

And again, if you weren't sure all you had to do was do a little bit of research. The Internet is at your disposal so you can, theoretically, go and look up as much stuff as you want about Naruto before replying. Like I said, the whole 'research' thing is something that's a given to any decent staff member.

For instance, right now someone could ask me about bijuu/jinchuuriki and I wouldn't be able to give a definite answer right away. I'd have to go refresh my memory a bit and check it out on Wikia/Leafninja before I answered them. Ask me about something like the Uchiha Clan and their bloodline and I can answer most basic questions relatively easy without the need to go refresh my mind. What you know about Naruto is subjective to what interests you. I.e. If you don't care about it, you don't remember it as well or as much. This can help with the staff to determine what you'd be good at modding.

Someone who remembers battle details are obviously going to be better suited for jutsus/equipment modding. Someone who's better at remembering major plot events would probably be decent for character modding. And so forth.


EDIT: Dang it Cara. >.< Stop beating me!!
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The Endless
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:21 pm

My oh my, I see someone is on the irritated side. I have to say

If you taken a final then you understand that it is a general overview of the entire curriculum of said study, whether it be biology, history, math, A&P, etc. Now keep in mind that.

Shinshou was the professor/teacher in this case and you the student. Shinshou could be a dick and make you memorize the entirety curriculum without giving you a lick of what to look at for this final. This is the reality of some teachers/professors in the world of academia. But that was not the case, Shinshou gave you a type of test that would be considered "open book" meaning you had a plethora of information (such as the internet) to look and find the answers.

The next part is critical thinking. Shinshou gave a test that wasn't multiple choice or fill in the blank. They were essays essentially and needlessly very good in making it seem like their were multiple answers (to some of the questions that is). When the people answered these question, this gives us how well you are able to comprehend information.


In honesty, this is something along the lines of the chunin exams with a twist. It didn't matter what was the answer but rather show how well you did in terms of processing information, looking back at the general guidelines(which would be the manga in this case) and coming to a conclusion. This happens with any high school class, college class and even many jobs where the variables change, information comes in lightning fast and it is up to you to think on your feet and consistently

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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:13 pm

Hmm, the only question I have at the moment is about Bijuu. I've seen a few creation apps about them, I wouldn't know what to do if a new one popped up. When are they going to be released? But that is all I have for now, if I have anymore questions, I guess I came come to you personally.
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Caranore
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:40 pm

The Bijuu will be released with the plot once we get that going, which should be today or tomorrow. More info will come with them.

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Annie
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:43 pm

There is no use in me even adding on to that Iavas, that answer was perfect. But to add on just a tit bit, it's not like I sat there and planned it. I literally came up with those questions off the top of my head. That's why I had "rigged." There's no "score" but there are definitely more acceptable answers than others. Even if most of you answered them all the same you were added as staff because you took the time out to do the application and for the most part and we think you can do the job. etc etc, but Iavas answered it the best.

As for questions (Iavas two questions)

Cara wrote:

And you are correct. Non human/half human etc unless created by specific genetic experiments (ie. they cannot just be half human at birth) and dead, souls, etc are banned. I think we could remove the genetic experiments completely, but lets be honest. If someone goes through the effort to roleplay genetically changing their character, Id allow it. Also, we do allow some modifications to represent animals, so its not that bad.


I'm going with this pretty much, if you want me to come up with an official version to post on staff then I can do that unless you want to. I'm pretty sure these was every previous mod/admin's general speculation on the topic.

Also, if archiving is a hassle then maybe I can help you or something. I know there are a LOT of topics that were archived. If you're good at noticing them and you don't feel like moving them all, you can send me (or ask a trial mod for assistance) and team up on archiving things. Let it be known by everybody that Iavas in a sense would be "in charge" of archiving (unless you don't want to Iavas) so we don't have two people doing the same thing without each other knowing.

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Iavas
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:47 pm

I'm cool with archiving.... I mean I spent an hour or so archiving all of the archives already, after all lol. Everyone can pretty much send stuff to archives and every few days I'll just organize it as necessary.


EDIT: Oh yeah... I'll probably go edit the 'official posts' sometime time within the next two to three weeks for grammar/coding issues. -.- You guys really need that to happen. >.>'' But I'm kinda busy for now so we'll see how soon I get to it.


Last edited by Iavas on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kiyoshi
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:11 pm

Real quick question

Quote :
Missing Nin: 0/∞Permission: Lifeanddeath -
Jinchuriki:1/1 [Closed]

We have a Jinchuuriki missing nin?

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Iavas
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:37 pm

Oh heeeey, I got a question--well more like something to point out.

Rank Guide & Availability wrote:
Uchiha must be within a village and be Chuunin or lower. There is a max of 4 Uchiha per village. The transferring of eyes over to non-Uchiha characters must also be done IC. MS must also be gained IC.

Kiri: 0/4
Kumo: 2/4
Missing Nin: 1/2

1) "Uchiha must be within a village and be Chuunin or lower." <-- This statement is redundant if you are allowing missing nin to be Uchiha and allowing them to start off as A+

2) There are currently 3 Missing Nin who are Uchiha and at least A+. (Marik Swift, Suzumi Uchiha, & Shihouin Uchiha)

3) Kumo already has 4 Uchiha. (Yeah I'll edit that soon.)

Problem much ._. ?

[Note: Marik's history is somewhat off considering Celestial Empire stuff happened 3 gens ago but he was actually part of it or something >.>'' Or maybe I read it wrong.]

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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:46 pm

Iavas the celestial empire stuff wasn't explained well to the members when we first started. Due to the plot still being a WIP. Marik made his history before it was explained in more detail. ^^; Thought that needed to be said is all. Carry on.
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Iavas
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:00 am

I'm well aware of that considering I was there; however, if you take into consideration when the application was actually approved, it occurred on the 18th of September, 3 days after I got approved--and by that time most people I asked (Cara, Trey, etc.) had pretty much told me that the Celestial Empire plot had happened several, several years ago, and 3 generations ago was more or less what I kept getting. Thus, I bring it up.

And no, I do not want histories to all match up with each other, but I at least want them to coincide with the plot the site is utilizing--otherwise histories really are just "fillers" and serve no purpose what-so-ever, meaning that having requirements for histories is just a joke and people can just post whatever they'd like just to meet the word requirements. Even staff needs to remember its own rules and what not or else it looks bad and can very easily be utilized against them in the future. And if that does happen there's really nothing staff can do about it because they're in wrong--the only thing they can do then is to edit someone's post or just outright delete it--which again looks bad and portrays the staff in bad light.

That aside, since you're an Admin, it'd be appreciated if you could at least comment on the dilemma presented rather than the side note that's not the main focus of my post, hence the brackets and "note"?
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squirrel101
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Tue Oct 04, 2011 4:30 am

I've been on Hiatus for a while and have no clue as to what is going on. I just found out people were adding mods back today. But from what I can see you're supposed to be the mod in charge of the others. I'm sure you'd know more about this than I would.

Quote :
1) "Uchiha must be within a village and be Chuunin or lower." <-- This statement is redundant if you are allowing missing nin to be Uchiha and allowing them to start off as A+

Simple. The rev and SR members got away with it because the merge guidelines were that people with their old characters can keep the rank they have. This is for our new members coming over. If you still think it's a problem take it up with the leader of the missing ninja. I thought that since you've been a mod for so long, way longer than me that you'd know how to fix that.

Quote :
3) Kumo already has 4 Uchiha. (Yeah I'll edit that soon.)

You're already going to fix this.

I thought you already had the other things handled and I thought that since I wasn't in charge of Missing Ninja, that I wouldn't be the one to go to about the A+ ranks. O.o Trey and Yosh are both admin that are breaking that rule. It's up to you to mainly take it to Trey.

Soooo, the only thing I could REALLY help you with is what I commented on. As for histories... three admin plus two mods looked at the app and didn't think the history was wrong. Either I myself, must look through histories more, as well as the other admin and mods, OR we really don't care much about the histories. So far it's not just me and marik who have gotten away with a history that doesn't make perfect sense. Either we need to make strict rules for histories or leave them be.

To me histories are for fleshing out a character, making them less boring, and also to give them something to use when they rp. Also a history shows how much dedication someone has to go for a specific rank. It can have the same effect as a rp sample. For Marik's case I would suggest you pm him and either explain why his history doesn't make sense and ask him if he wants to change it or just leave it and never use it in RP. OR you can move his character topic, which has been edited so many times now that it's not funny, and have him redo his history.

Quote :
That aside, since you're an Admin, it'd be appreciated if you could at least comment on the dilemma presented rather than the side note that's not the main focus of my post, hence the brackets and "note"?

I hope that helped explain why i didn't comment on the other problems. ^.^
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Gambit


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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:08 pm

Well, after the plot is released will the site being adverstiting, or has that already been going on?

Edit: Also, I'm not sure if this is because of school, but the Internet Explorer doesn't seem to like some of the coding on the site.
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Caranore
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:13 pm

Havent checked on IE, but it could just be IE in general. Once the plot is released we will be advertising again. Just.... someone remind me to post when I get home from work before I get on LoL.

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ShadowGaia13
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:04 pm

I never really took the test o,o didn't think it was something you had to take.

I have a question as to why there are more S-rank criminals then there is allowed?

[quote=Days of the Week]S rank: 4/4 [Closed] [/quote]

Yet, there are five approved Satsuriku // Leon Tavolin // Shin Michio // Shishouin Uchiha // Aki Izayoi. All S-rank, and missing Ninja. It's almost like all the better rp'rs went and joined up with DotW.
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Kiyoshi
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:54 pm

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It's almost like all the better rp'rs went and joined up with DotW.

Though Im not exactly sure if I should be the one to answer, I figure that's supposed to be the point. [SPOILER ALERT, not really] Just like Akatsuki, DotW are supposed to be made up of the toughest people (In this case, rpers) that you have to go through in order to "save the day". Think of it like your fav. video game, except for maybe like the first or second boss, every boss after that is supposed to be rather difficult to defeat or else the game would be boring. (Keep in mind that this is only a guess and does not represent actual decisions made by staff)

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Caranore
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PostSubject: Re: So Trial Mods   Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:36 am

Im plot only. Therefore I was given S-Rank based on that. Also, like Kiyoshi said, you need to keep in mind that theres 2 villages, and one MN organization. We need more and better Rpers there because we are limited in the amount of people we host. 5 S-Rank nin vs 2 villages. Compare and contrast the differences.

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